Mulder 2, 3

How does language factor into the conversion dynamic for Latinos? Is the relationship different for first generation immigrants compared to second or third generation immigrants? What role does congregational organization play in this language dynamic?

This forum will be open for credit until M 3/12.

Language is an expression of culture and identity. For Latinos, language use becomes a factor in alienation during the conversion process. Latinos, who are bilingual people, embody Catholic virtues and appreciate the use of Spanish in worship services. Protestant denominations use English primarily for their worship services. Therefore, a language barrier is formed between the two denominations for converts. I think this relationship is important to first generation immigrants, who have not acquired English fluency yet. For second or third generation immigrants, the language barrier is not a factor. The congregational organization plays a role when the clergy aims to accommodate converts into the congregation in order to make the conversion smoother.

I agree. And I also wonder if further alienation happens when Spanish-speaking is taken as a given, and if non-Spanish speaking Latinos feel unwelcome in religious communities where Spanish is treated as an integral feature to the culture. Is there a guilt present in the non-Spanish speaking members and are they made to feel as though they have something missing from their identity because they are not fluent, and does this affect where they will choose to attend religious services.

I can understand this but I cant help but think, Latinxs are a large group of any combination of race/ethnicity/class/language or dialects. If someone feels alienated because they cannot speak Spanish, or that specific dialect of Spanish, then it would be easy to just find another group that relates to the difference without having to question a persons Latinidad. There are plenty of Latinxs who cannot speak Spanish but that wouldn't and shouldn't inflict any kind of guilt. So, answering your last question, it will definitely affect where they choose to go.

I agree that it is a very rough process for the first generation Latinos. They have a lot to take on, such as culture, language, and lifestyle. Before aquiring english fluencey it is very hard, and English is the toughest language to pick up at any age besides from being an infant. Converting is a tough process but I believe it is well worth it for the person who believes a change in their religious life must be made.

I agree, language is a way to separate people who don't share a common ground. Many first generation immigrants carry the burden of not belonging whereas second and third generations don't share this issue. They are allowed to blend into the culture more freely.

I agree with your explanation. Language creates a communication system within a particular group or country. In today's diverse society, language can cause barriers making it difficult to interact. For example, individuals who are first generation. The process of adapting to a new atmosphere and language itself is already troublesome. Whereas second generations, may have it easier because of already adapting to both cultures.

Language conversion is very difficult, especially when it is not when you are an infant. I couldn't imagine moving somewhere and having to adapt to the whole entire language starting all over again. For first generation immigrants, it is the toughest because everything is brand new, the land, the culture, and the language. For second and third generations, it will be easier due to the fact that their is not much of a language barrier.

Yes, for first generation immigrants it is difficult adjusting to a new culture and a language barrier creates a sense of alienation and feeling as if you don't belong. Therefore, many first generation immigrants choose to settle in ethnic enclaves, where they don't feel so alienated. For Latinos, the use of Spanish during the worship service was a way to integrate their cultural identity with their religious faith. For second and third generation immigrants, Spanish fluency becomes a way to maintain ties to their culture and identity.

I agree with your statement especially how adjusting to a new culture and language causes a sense of alienation and not belonging for first generation immigrants. It is much easier for second and third generation immigrants because it becomes a norm for them that this is how they will keep ties to their culture.

I totally agree with you, learning a new language is very difficult for immigrants. I really like what u say it is the toughest because everything is brand new, the land, the culture and the language. Immigrants don't speak English, this is so hard for them to talk to people. Most importantly, there is no way that they can share their culture with others in our country. Being an immigrant in the United States, sometimes I don't know how to say something in English. I feel so upset, and I lost confident to speak up in front of people.

The relationship has to be different between the first, second, and third generations. Because for first generations, they have to learn 2 languages and translate their life, but mostly translate their culture into the second language. For the subsequent generations, bilingualism/multilingualism is part of the culture. And for that reason they would most likely not care about the language things are presented in but rather how engaging things are presented. For older generations of latinxs however, language, the acceptance or alienation of it, greatly influenced the choices they were drawn to religiously. So, if a religion was reaching out to them in basic language they can understand then it makes sense they would change their religion for that benefit.

I definitely agree with you, especially when discussing the way language influenced the choices they were drawn to. I also think this extends beyond religion, which explains the varying ethnic enclaves throughout the country. Even within New York, there are certain neighborhoods where businesses converse with their customers/clients predominantly in Spanish. Latino Protestants have existed for a long time and, in relation to the incline in Latino Protestants, I think a major factor for first generation immigrants was that Protestants were more readily able to provide these communities with Spanish services.

Even within New York, there are certain neighborhoods where businesses converse with their customers/clients predominantly in Spanish. - Louisa L.

This is very true. I agree with you on the statement that Protestants were more readily available with Spanish services for communities. I think that this context is applicable to other religions and ethnic groups as well, around the country.

I think language is a major factor in the conversion dynamics for Latinos. I think it's safe to say that anyone that is actively engaged with religion would want to be part of a church and congregation that they can understand. As stated in the previous chapters, the Catholic Church was neglecting the Latino community and I believe language factors into this. One of the reasons why Protestantism continues to grow within the Latino community is due to the ways in which Latinos socialize their children into faith. In this way, we can see how the relationship differs amongst second and third generation immigrants. Second and third generation immigrants would either know both English and Spanish, or is some cases only English. This not only changes the dynamics, but could also influence the ways in which the churches themselves engage with the Latino identity.

Language is a key factor in conversion for Latinos. Language is how people communicate worldwide. It is how people get various ideas across about topics including politics, economics, science, anthropology, as well as sociology and religion.

According to Hispanic Economics, the definition of "Latino" is as follows:
Latino - a U.S.-born Hispanic who is not fluent in Spanish and is engaged in social empowerment through Identity Politics. “Latino” is principally used west of the Mississippi, where it has displaced “Chicano” and “Mexican American.” English is probably their “native” language.

For Latinos, their native religion was Catholic. Catholic religions gave Latinos the opportunity to speak their native language in the church. Thus, cohesion was produced at higher rates. I think that the relationships that Latinos have with conversion dynamics may indeed vary across generations. I say this because I think that it has to do a lot with the resources provided to learn, comprehend and communicate in a particular language. The resources that people have in today's day and age give them opportunities to utilize the learning of a new language.

Congregational organization played a role in mission work for Catholic churches. In this process, individuals would go to communities and set up churches, and missionaries would run them, as they were very hierarchical. The ideology of Catholic churches was not particularly successful, thus leading to alienation. Alienation in the Catholic churches led to a lack of spirituality in Latinos, and social services that they needed were only provided by Protestant churches. Thus, Latinos converted to Protestantism, without knowing that they took advantage of alienation, compared to their traditional Catholic churches. In Catholic churches, Latinos could speak Spanish, whereas in Protestant churches, they were forced to abandon Spanish as their spoken language, and take on the task of learning to speak English.

In my own perspective, I think language use is so important in Latino community. First generation immigrants don't know how to speak English, however, second or third generation immigrants are English speakers. Sometimes most of them know more than two languages in the United States. This is because it can contribute to Latino identity. In order to reach out with other groups, we need to have some services in Spanish. In other words, language is one of the significant aspects of Latino culture.

I also think language is a big factor for Latino community. Depends on the congregation, different languages will be use to differentiate the congregations. By using different languages that they are comfortable will, patron will more likely to come more and feeling a sense of belonging there.

I agree with you on that services being done in spanish allowed Latinos access to them in contrast to them being done in english.

Language is an expresses both culture and identity making it a very important social function. As for Latinos the concept of language is fundamental due too the fact that it is an expression of their own identity. However, for first generation immigrants they often times may face many different barriers due to the fact that you will have no option but to adjust to your surroundings and adjust to the new culture that you are exposed too. Therefore they are forced to leave behind they're culture, customs and traditions which becomes a major challenge for them. Second and third generations would either most likely be bilingual speaking both English and Spanish or just even English. But churches that were catholic churches would be more accepting toward the Spanish language as some services were in Spanish whereas protestants did not accept Spanish. This doesn't change only the dynamics but language plays a very significant role in culture and constructing ones own identity.

As the text states language has been a source of contention for Latinos in relation to conversion due to the churches being set up mainly in english during this period; but remedied in later versions of missionary work by the protestant church providing english classes to better integrate new partitioners into the faith. The contrast between first and third generation immigrants is access to culture, language, & stronger cultural/religious ties for the former. The role of congregational organization is to recreate community within the church walls.

Throughout the world, language is used to communicate as well as to differentiate an individual’s unique culture and identity. For Latinos, language factors into conversion dynamic by creating a bridge between them and native speakers. When Latinos immigrate from their mother land to a community, where most speak English, it feels as though the culture that once surrounded them is gone. They have to try harder to adjust to a culture that does not accept them for who they are. The relationship is definitely harder for second or third generation immigrants in comparison to first generation immigrants because most likely, they will not have a language barrier. When there is no language barrier, it is easier to be more accustomed to the culture you have been surrounded by rather than the one you have been born into through your family. For many second or third generation immigrants, they have their made themselves a part of a society, that still holds stigma because of the culture they were brought up with regardless if they blended themselves into American culture or not. Congregational organization plays into this language dynamic because most Latinos are raised Catholic and have many services conducted in Spanish. Religion is used to keep language,culture, and traditions alive and to not exclude anyone.

In my perspective, language plays a important facts for first generation Latino. The reason is that for these Latino Spanish is the only language that they know and comparing to the second generation, their religious belief is more traditional and more conservative. However, the second generation was born here and tend to more open to new ideas and therefore more likely to choose their religion. I think this give the congregation organization an opportunity to make their move and make the conversion more efficient.

I agree with you Marcus, I was thinking of the generation of Latinos and how and if language would differ among these generations but I think you bring up an interesting point. As we have read in our previous book, there is now more of selecting where we think we belong, and may deliberately choose to step away from the religion one grew up in. I believe it is very accurate to think about the differences in generations in this way.

Thinking about the way Catholic masses were celebrated, if you did not understand Latin, it would be as if you were attending a show and would make it harder to feel any spiritual connection if you did not understand what is actually being said. Protestant churches however, made it possible to feel a spiritual connection as many mass services were celebrated in Spanish, a language the people understood. Language was a factor that played in the conversion of Protestantism. Language may differ from the generations that may follow ahead. If the next generations learn english, perhaps they may feel more comfortable attending an english service, rather than Spanish service. However, it may become a tradition to attend the Spanish mass and may continue to attend the Spanish service instead. I believe that the congregational organization contributed to the conversion of Protestantism, as this organization made language more accessible for Latinos who were seeking God, and not happy in their prior religion.

I totally agree with you on this Brenda, because i can speak for myself. I speak and understand English and Spanish very well. Although i much rather go to Spanish service instead of an English service. Just because i feel more comfortable there with my family. It is true if the new generation learns English they're much more open to choosing their own Religion and which mass they would want to attend.

Language factors into the conversion dynamic for Latinos because it is consider a cultural identity which influences Latinos on the type of religion they would to serve too. The relationship is different for the first generation immigrants compared to second or third immigrants because the first immigrants already come with their culture, language as well as traditions that have been passed down to them from generations. However, they now (first immigrants) have to adopt to the new cultural and language. Due to that, second generation immigrants grow up in this new cultural and language sphere making them now bilingual whereas third generation immigrants may just know English without attaining the Spanish speaking skill. The language dynamic plays a huge role on congregational organization because depending on the language that the congregation may offer it can get a good amount of Spanish speaking Latino compare to if the congregation is bilingual gathering or attaining more Latinos that speak English, thus making the congregation more diverse.

Language factors into conversion dynamic for Latinos because it's what proves where they feel like they belong just by what language they speak and understand. Immigrants in the United States who don't speak nor understand English feel less welcomed and makes it harder to adjust to a new land , new jobs and community. As the second and third generation are more familiar with the language in the United States . they feel more privileged and opened with their choices because of knowing how to speak and understand more then one language. Of course those two generations may stick to what the first generations is comfortable with just to stick together.

Language is essential for communication; and in order to be understood you must speak the same language as who you are speaking to. The only way to convey information between people and large groups of people is to be able to use the right vernacular to properly convey the right message. In the case of first generation Lantino people converting to Protestantism, language served as the key the congregational organization used to connect/ convert to them. By performing services in spanish instead of than english, the church attracted more latino followers because they felt more comfortable hearing their mother tongue rather than the language they were being forced to learn in a new country.
First generation latinos differ from second and third generation latinos in that they went to the church because it provided them with support and hope. Second and third generation latinos would likely go to church because it was a habit instilled into their family's shared traditions by their parents and grandparents.